SB: $175.85
BB: $100.00
UTG: $251.45
Hero (MP): $110.70
CO: $108.50
BTN: $50.00
Pre Flop: Hero is MP with 6c 6h
1 fold, Hero raises to $3.50, 1 fold, BTN calls $3.50, 2 folds
Flop: ($8.50) Ah 7c 7s (2 players)
Hero bets $5, BTN raises to $10
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This seems like a pretty simple hand. I'm looking over some older sessions, so I forget whether I had any read/history with this guy, so let's just say unknown. As an aside, my default read of someone who has a half stack for more than a few hands is that he's not that good.
Question #1: Do we need to worry a ton at these stakes about balancing our play in these spots? I don't think so. Unless we're up against a regular, we won't develop enough history on them, and they won't have any on us...probably no notes, just stats. If they have notes, they won't contain the context of the play. And a lot of the guys we do/will have history with are either not good enough to worry about them exploiting us or are playing too many tables to notice. Certainly at higher stakes against more regular, better players, balance is good. But at 100NL? On a big site?
Question #2: If we don't worry too much about balancing our play, should we bet? If we should bet, should we also bet with air? If we should bet with our hand and/or with air, should we bet with Ax? Taking any sort of metagame out of the equation, bets should get value from worse or cause better hands to fold (with some variations, like semibluffs and betting for protection). If we c-bet with air, we do it because we think better hands will fold. If we had AK, we'd be doing it to get worse to call, but we would hate for worse to fold because they will have so few outs. But it's the same opponent, and our hand shouldn't matter. However, there are 8.5 big blinds in the pot already, and so that could make betting with air correct even if betting with AK is also right.
Question #3: What to do about his little min-raise? First of all, if you were the one who cold called on the button and your opponent c-bet into you, what legitimate hands would you raise? How often would you bluff-raise your opponent's c-bet? Now, take some random I've-only-got-a-half-stack donk's viewpoint? What do you think he does with his legitimate hands? In other words, get inside the mind of the donk. (This, by the way, is one of the worst parts of my game. I do a pretty bad job interpreting people's actions, both good and bad players.)
Question #4: What's better between calling the raise and shoving? I actually think that this is the easiest question. I'm not asking if we should fold, just giving a choice between shove and fold.
7 comments:
Simple answers: 1. I don't think you need to balance your play much at these limits. 2. I don't think betting this flop is really a balancing play, though. It's simply a great board to c-bet vs a single opponent no matter what you have. 3. I think it's a prety standard fold vs an unknown, but there are plenty of times I would reraise here given the right circumstances.
I have a lot more thoughts going through my head about these questions, but I'm too tired to write them out. Maybe we should get a sweat going some time.
now this is an great example of where i struggle...standard raise and standard c bet... and then for me the mind job min raise
what does it mean , i have no idea !! but if i was to take a guess... i might say without any reads , that this guy has a hand maybe tpwk or even middle pair , but this is how they play these hands , im pretty sure they make a min raise as a sort of semi bluff ,there hoping it will get you to fold because there not overly confident in there hand and maybe not willing to risk too much , so if you came over the top with a shove they fold .
On the other hand it may be there way of getting you to shove and then they gladly call , against an unknown its for me a standard fold
see told you i struggle
#1: no, i'm not worried about balancing my play in these games.
#2: should we bet? i have no idea against an unknown. these flops are weird to me because i think that anyone with a PP is automatically going to call a cBet here. and that's a pretty good part of an overcaller's range.
well that, and depending upon how timid they are, AK/AQ/AJs. and the worse they are, the more Aces i expect them to call with.
i'm sure i'm tainted because i've seen the minRaise, but my knee-jerk reaction to flops like this are "it's going to take 2" bullets to get most hands out of there. so, i'm ok with delaying the bet until the turn. i think that represents the Ace better.
i do like betting out the AK/Ax, then checking the turn, and betting again on the river. it looks to me like an Ace shouldn't bet the flop, so it comes off (hopefully) as bluffy and gets a look up. if he folds, make a note.
#3: i interpret the minRaise as "do you really have the Ace?".
if i CC i think the only hands i minRaise there might be KK/QQ/JJ. i generally don't bluffRaise unknowns. i could see doing it to someone who's got a habit of pfr/cBet if i have position on them.
as a random donk, he's raising an ace, or even a seven hoping your married to your Ace. as an aggro donk, anything once.
#4: shoving has some FE in it, calling is just gutting yourself slowly. but, i can't bring myself to shove, and then have him call with A6 only to say "whew, i really thought you had me there."
"i'm sure i'm tainted because i've seen the minRaise, but my knee-jerk reaction to flops like this are "it's going to take 2" bullets to get most hands out of there. so, i'm ok with delaying the bet until the turn. i think that represents the Ace better."
I couldn't disagree more. I have no idea why an ace would check this flop. I think betting the flop represents an ace and checking the flop/betting the turn represents pps higher than 77.
Don't worry about balancing against a donk, bet the flop and fold to the checkraise. It is a pretty simple hand imo, with really no thought whatsoever. I think shoving this flop is bad and calling is bad. Just give it up and move on. No need to press a very marginal spot (and possible -EV) when you can easily find a more profitable spot soon enough.
Min check/raises are annoying and they can mean all sorts of different things.
With no read I just fold and keep close eye on him.
If I were the one cold calling.....I don't cold call much but when I do on the button, and raiser cbets a lot, I will be raising his cbet with a wide range on a ton of flops.
Lots of long answers here so heres my short one....Yup its annoying atleast we know he can play a little by that minraise hes makin you make a decision. Let this one go and check raise or 3 bet the next one with the guy.
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